Other than the Mayor who attempted to give us the opportunity to vote on this important project, the remaining four Council members had no interest in considering a new construction modular option that would have cost millions of dollars less nor putting the financing matter before voters. While resident voters were the losers on this night, the project team consultants breathed easier knowing that checks for more than $430,000 would again resume for their efforts to get us to ribbon cutting day.
So why does this Council loan decision matter? For the past almost 20 years, the City has not been able to adequately maintain our water, street and storm drain infrastructure. Increased water rates, new utility fees, and possible proposed property tax Bond measures to remedy these problems will fill upcoming Council Agendas. So when these funding solution discussions come up, the City will no doubt attempt to convince us that money saved on a less costly City Hall build could not have instead been used to address this past neglect and mitigate the need to make these new revenue requests.
The City Manager in her City Hall Project Update released to citizens on March 27th claimed that visitors currently pay for pretty much of all of our infrastructure. The percentage of Transient Lodging Tax revenue in the proposed Budget that gets transferred to support our infrastructure projects is the following: water – 0% Street – 7.6% Storm Drain – 2% . Contrary to these published declarations, visitors through TLT revenue are not obviously paying for any significant support of our infrastructure needs.
The newly approved loan to pay the debt for our City Hall insures that even less funding will now be available through TLT revenue in the General Fund to finance City infrastructure projects.
The Council President described the City’s outreach process since the 2019 Bond failure and expressed complete confidence they had gotten it right this time and were delivering what a majority of citizens wanted. What went unsaid was we made the same claims in 2019 and we are not going to have a repeat of that outcome this time.
In the months ahead as costs for our City Hall become clearer, the big question is just how much will this project end up costing. No final information on the details of the loan that is being requested has been presented to the public yet so that debt cost is unknown. The City Manager also indicated that including a solar option is still possible and will be presented in upcoming designs.
Most cities that achieve a number one ranking are eager to let their citizens know of the effort that it took to attain such recognition. Any other citizens out there ready to start the celebration?
Oregon is a state of small cities. 317 of these cities are like Manzanita and have a population of 5,000 or less. The June 7th City Council decision insures our place of recognition as having the most expensive City Hall construction project for a City within this category that I am confident will never be broken.
Randy Kugler
villageatthefalls.helpfulvillage.com/pictures/798/download
The garden tour is being hosted by the Village at the Falls and supports a ‘sister’ village to our own Rainy Day Village (Who you going to call’?). This is a once in a lifetime opportunity, don’t miss it !
2023 GARDEN & ART TOUR, synopsis of the gardens
1. This garden features lots of color and trees in a rural area which looks natural with rolling grassy areas, walkways, and many shrubs, as well as various eating areas and water features. If you would like to bring a picnic, a few tables set up, and their daughter will have snacks out to share. – is also an artist and her garden art and mosaics will be for sale, as will those crafted by other local artists. The Oregon City Garden Club will have some plants for sale.
2. This small farm features a barn (with artists inside), a permaculture vegetable garden, and many flowers and trees as well as a beautiful fruit tree in the front which will have tables and chairs for picnickers. Their daughter is a caterer and will be selling charcuterie cups (think meat, cheeses & veggies in a paper cone cup).
3.For pure fantasy you can’t beat B’s garden! Can you even imagine walking through a garden of Bowling Ball Trees, fairy houses, and even a Sasquatch family? This garden is complete with three water features, hostas and ferns, all on one acre. There will be plenty of artists here, too.
4. – – and her partner own one of the historic homes in older Oregon City. From the curbside the entire neighborhood admires her brightly flowered front entrance area, as well as the Heritage Sycamore Tree which dominates the front yard. The back yard has a great arbor and many plantings and shrubs, but what catches your eye are the two CATIOS that they have placed there for their cats to enjoy the back yard with them!
5. In the front stands a huge 120+ year old cedar tree which is lighted day and night now. As you proceed to the back you will see the makings of a basic English garden with with many perennials combined with colorful annuals. A large pergola and interesting fence will give you some ideas on how to take a small area and make it into a great backyard outdoor space to share with neighbors and friends.
6. As we talked with – – about his home being on the Garden Tour we kept looking next door and seeing a brand new garden emerging from bare ground. It was so fascinating to see new plantings every week that we thought there may be people looking for new ideas on how to just “start” their garden and get it looking very nice in less than a year. Be sure to talk with A and R to get some ideas on what might work for you, and maybe even what NOT to do. There will be hot dogs and chips for sale at this garden, as well as artists and crafters doing their thing.
7. At this house you can’t help but think you have walked into a secret rain forest with all of the huge ferns growing right out of sheer basalt rock. R and her husband spent 33 years turning a beautiful but inhospitable pile of boulders into the most beautiful garden imaginable. Artist Ben Dye contributed sculptures and a wonderful fence made of recycled steel. Artist Jean Chapin’s ceramic art populates the garden, and Kate Simmons’ metal mesh piece, “The Ripped Bodice” grace the the back of the house. Mirena Oberg and her whimsical ceramics will be the featured artist at this location, along with Tanith Yates. Parking is limited, so please see shuttle information below.
8. S’s garden overlooks Willamette Falls and is a miracle to behold! She and her husband carved over 30 different garden rooms out of the sides of the cliff that was previously her back yard, carrying dirt and rocks by wheelbarrows up steep paths themselves over the years. Each garden room is uniquely different and this is a garden to see once in your lifetime. Much of the area has steep pathways, so probably not a good choice for those who are physically impaired, although there is much to see in the flatter area near the house. Parking for this garden is limited, so shuttles are provided from the parking lot on the corner of Center and S 2nd Avenue, the old location of the Oregon City Public Works Offices.
Funds raised by the Friends of NCRD provide scholarships and support programs offered by the Youth, Fitness, and Aquatic Departments. How about some matching t-shirts for the baseball teams? Yes, you can help with the shirts and equipment. And yes, your neighbor needs a bouquet.
If you can’t make it to Manzanita, you could make a donation by sending a check to Friends of NCRD, PO Box 511, Nehalem, Oregon 97130. Website is
friendsofncrd.org. Tax ID: 501(3)(c) #26-3325407
Thanks very much!
The Cheese Stands Alone
When you were a kid, did you ever play with somebody who didn’t follow the directions on the side of the box? Some kid who made up the rules so they could win? The one who invented words for Scrabble or wouldn’t be out when they were tagged?
What’s it like to play with someone who doesn’t think the rules apply to them, that other people are always the problem; that they’re always right and others are always wrong? They say sorry when they have to, but don’t mean it.
Good players on the playground of life learn to cooperate and collaborate so the play is fun for everybody and can be sustained for a long time.
Some of my best memories of being a kid were the extended stories me and my best friend, Karen and her brothers Will and Fred would act out over the weeks of summer vacation in the weedy back lots of our houses. We played an awful lot of ‘war’ with our Barbies and GI Joes thanks to growing up watching the war in Vietnam on TV’s nightly news. And when we took a break from that game, we’d play Sorry or Clue or Operation or Twister with the rules on the box that we all agreed to.
The rules are the thing that help people playing a game know how to work together, even while competing to win. When everybody plays by the same rules, it’s fun. You can be creative inside the game and if you come to a consensus with the other players, you can change the rules.
City government is a lot like a board game. You can be creative inside the game, when you learn how (and agree to) play by the rules.
I watched the Special Session of the Budget Committee and want to encourage people to watch it.
The Mayor of Manzanita has written a couple of op/eds. There are rules about writing public statements as an elected official in the City’s Rules of Procedure. You may only state the official position of the city, as approved by a majority of the Council or if it’s your personal opinion, you have to make that clear before stating it. Oh, and it helps not to include your elected position title in your by-line, as in the Mayor of Manzanita.
The first op/ed the Mayor wrote is a response to an article I wrote about the City Manager’s review information that was available to the public on the City’s website. That was never a violation of executive session rules because it was public.
In her Tillamook County Pioneer, May 16, 2023 op/ed, Response: Transparency and Compensation, the Mayor wrote, “…the recent evaluation of the City Manager was made public. In that light, the process should also be public.” She then goes on to write in detail about the performance review.
Hold up. The executive session rules aren’t suggestions, and those present at a closed meeting don’t get to choose which information is protected or when it “should” be released.
If that were true, I would’ve saved myself the stress of the last few months and just spilled the beans on the two executive sessions I attended. The place for a discussion of the process of review would be at a Council workshop.
The Mayor’s most recent op/ed is about the reasons for her lone no vote to pass the ’23/24 Budget.
Voting no isn’t the deal. It’s the pattern of behavior that’s bad news.
During three budget workshops the Mayor didn’t raise questions, didn’t ask for information she wanted or comment to voice her opinions. She didn’t talk with other colleagues on council or members of the Budget Committee and she didn’t ask staff to get her the information she wanted.
Maybe she called Waldport or Toledo.
Information is available to council and the mayor. If they have questions, there are other members of council to talk with about process. There’s the City Manager.
We have operators standing by, but you’ve got to pick up the phone…and not dial long distance.
It’s not that there can’t be outside sources and advisors. There can and should be. New ideas and solutions come from cross-pollination. But it shouldn’t be mutually exclusive.
Instead of talking with other councilors or staff, here’s what the mayor did do; she wrote a memo to Council and the Budget Committee and then published an op/ed. As the Mayor of Manzanita.
A few minutes into the Budget Committee’s special meeting it was clear that the Mayor was concerned. Except that none of her concerns really had to do with the budget for ’23/24, they had to do with policy, which is Council’s deal not the Budget Committee’s.
She commented a couple of times that the Budget Committee should “push” Council, like they’re adversaries and not colleagues working toward the benefit of the city as a whole.
Council and members of the Budget Committee said that some of her ideas were worth pursuing but she clearly had no idea how the process of implementing policy works…like you have to talk with your colleagues and sometimes actually meet up with them. We need new ideas and solutions for old problems but you have to work within the rules to accomplish them. Otherwise nothing will get done no matter how good your ideas are.
In the statement the Council President made at the end of the meeting, she said that the Mayor hadn’t met or talked with any of the councilors, unless she had to in required meetings. For months.
Equally troubling is that when the Mayor and Council President last had an agreed upon meeting to hear a presentation by the Mayor’s husband, the Mayor wasn’t there. Only her husband and one of her advisors were.
The Mayor’s husband and the advisor weren’t elected to office. The Mayor’s husband and advisor can’t implement policy with council. The Mayor can do that, if she works with members of council but apparently she doesn’t and hasn’t for the months she’s been in office.
The Mayor acknowledged that it has been a “bumpy start.” She said that the way things are now isn’t good for the city, the council or her and that she’s been saying so since February. Then why didn’t she respond to offers to meet and talk? Why didn’t she pick up the phone? February was five months ago.
The rest of council play well together. I know all four of them. They don’t always agree about everything but they work together. They talk. The mayor says she wants to be a “fixer of problems,” but six months into her term she’s isolated herself from the only people who can help her do that.
Remember that game, the Farmer in the Dell? At the end, it’s the cheese standing alone.
In my last op/ed for the Pioneer I wrote that ‘all will be revealed’. That wasn’t a threat or some political strategy, just a true fact. It’s been my experience that whenever you try to hide something, you are always revealed. What you won’t own, will own you instead. Whatever your secret is, it’s coming for you.
Instant karma, John Lennon called it. I love that guy.
Kim Rosenberg loretta.kim.rosenberg@gmail.com
Link to Friday June 2, 2023 Manzanita Budget Committee Meeting
https://youtu.be/R3WAO8vKQhI
I had requested that this proposal be placed on the June Council Agenda on May 24th in accordance with the Rules of Procedure for Council Meetings. At the time of my request, I was not aware that an action item to move ahead with Phase 2 of the City Hall decision would be on the Agenda. The City Manager denied the request based on her opinion that the request did not meet the approval criteria. That approval criteria in part considers whether the request would have “broad public interest”.
I would submit that the advantages of this option compared to what the City has proposed to date with its 30% design presentation and associated construction and debt financing costs would most certainly have broad public interest.
As you review the details of this option, it becomes readily apparent it exceeds several important categories that citizens would be interested in, including more office space (+569 sq. ft.), faster construction time, dedicated office space for an EVC command center in the PD and greater energy efficiency and operating costs through using the cost savings to install solar roof panels.
Using the City’s existing 30% construction design costs and proposed debt financing costs, it is possible to project approximate total project cost savings with this option without having to pay City consultants an additional $431,411 to get tighter figures. Depending on how much of the proposed site built construction project contingency is needed, total project cost savings could be between $1.5 and $2.2 million dollars.
I would remind you that the Manzanita Listens survey revealed that cost was the single most important consideration mentioned by citizens in the construction of a new City Hall facility. There is no question as the cost effectiveness of building modular for this project. The only question is how great will the cost savings be.
I would ask that the Council consider tabling the Phase 2 decision and schedule a workshop in the next 2-3 weeks in order that Mr. O’Brien can answer your and citizen questions on this option. Your actions on Wednesday will signal whether you agree that this option holds no public interest and is not worthy of a pause to consider. I would also suggest that not spending the time to investigate this option complicates the already politically challenging decision that you will have to soon make on submitting this matter to the voters or proceeding with a Full Faith and Credit loan.
As this is my public testimony on Agenda item B under Old Business, please make sure that it is included as part of the public record for the June 7th meeting.
Thank you,
Randy Kugler
Mayor Simmons and Council Members,
On behalf of Blazer Industries and Pacific Mobile Structures, I am presenting a new build City Hall option for your community to consider. This option will meet or exceed your goals of a City Hall that is durable, adaptable, functional, and efficient. It will be designed with an eye to your unique coastal conditions and highlight the value that your citizens place on environmental sustainability. most importantly, it will be built at a cost that citizens can be confident represents the most value for their investment.
What is Modular Construction?
Modular is a method of construction in which a building is built in pieces or “modules” at an offsite location, in a controlled environment and then delivered and assembled for completion on
site. Modular buildings follow the same building code as site-built structures and must be engineered by a licensed engineer and submitted, inspected, and approved by the State agency in
which the building will be located.
Who’s your Modular Team?
Blazer Industries is the largest commercial modular building manufacturer in the Pacific Northwest. We are a family-owned business located in Aumsville., Oregon and have completed over 19,000 projects during the 43 years we have been in operation. Pacific Mobile Structures has been a PNW family-owned business for 40 years. We are the largest regional dealer for mobile-modular space. Our Modular Construction process allows Pacific Mobile to standout of the competition with our turnkey approach to taking care of our customers. Pacific Mobile has the KCDA Contract for Mobile Modular Space which allows State and City Municipalities to purchase through a competitively bided contract.
What are the Advantages of Modular Construction versus Site Built Construction?
Shorter Construction Schedules. Factory construction happens simultaneously with site prep and foundation work. Get your City Hall 30-50% faster than site built.
Top notch materials built to Code. Modular buildings use the same architect specified materials and are required to meet or exceed the same building codes as site-built structures.
Less material wastes. Building in a factory-controlled environment better manages inventory cost.
Better quality control. In house design and production help designers, engineers, and builders head off problems early. Construction takes place in a factory-controlled environment where building materials and construction are protected from changing weather conditions.
Less site disruption. Shorter construction time decreases construction traffic and noise for surrounding neighborhoods.
Cost
Because of all of the advantages of using modular construction for a public facility, the City can use the substantial project savings for other needed community projects.
Why Have a Separate City Hall and Police Building?
It is quite common to have separate Police facilities outside of a City Hall in Oregon and there are several practical reasons for this. Each Police Department are mandated to provide for a secure Law Enforcement Data (LEDS) terminal that can only be accessible to certified individuals. Most City Hall employees have no reason for access to LEDS and are therefore not certified. A separate building affords greater security for required evidence storage involving
police seizures of items to be submitted in Court cases. A Police Department also needs a secure armory for storage of weapons and ammunition that is only accessible to certified personnel.
Should a single building for both City Hall and Police be desired, this can be done and will most likely result in less project cost.
Warranty of Our Buildings
Attached is our building warranty which is an industry leading 2-year limited warranty on all our buildings.
Upgrades Included in Our Proposal
Timbered entry canopies, natural river rock wainscot on all sides of the current building designs to give the coastal look. Upgraded 26 gauge standing seam metal roofing on all buildings.
Energy Efficient Operation of Your Buildings
Our buildings are required to meet Oregon’s energy code requirements for insulation, equipment, lighting, and windows.
Solar Capability
Our factory will include a Stub up and down with ¾ in. conduit from the panel for future Solar panels.
Included in this proposal are the KCDA price proposals, building plans and elevations, flooring in-fill plans, building specifications on what we are including and our scope of work form showing the responsibilities of Pacific Mobile and the City of Manzanita. Once we receive the civil drawings, we can then give you an estimate on the sitework potion of your project.
In conclusion, Pacific Mobile Structures and Blazer Industries are prepared to deliver your new City Hall and Police facilities which will meet or exceed all current Code requirements required of site-built construction. Our proposal will provide the City with more space at less total project cost including less financing debt. Also, our construction timeline allows employees and citizens to make use of their new facilities months earlier than a site-built project saving rental costs on meeting facilities and allowing the City to focus on other community priorities.
Sincerely,
Mike O’Brien
VP of Sales
Stop by Tie Breaker on Monday, 6/12 and Tuesday, 6/13 between 9am-1pm with your resume and meet the owners.
194 Highway 101 S, Rockaway Beach, OR, United States, Oregon (the old Cow Bell)
We look forward to seeing you!
The billionaire-instigators have realized that wokeism is the way to get ‘progressives’ to support their billion-dollar taxpayer-funded mass-murder campaigns.
And it works!
There was a very good reason I referred to the Biden Admin as ‘Biden’s Rainbow Coalition of Death’ in a previous post. And it isn’t funny.
Jimmy Done knows this, but he IS funny. What Max says at minute 08:00 is the point I am trying to make here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6V423kHeno
P.S. I have a new quote, I changed it a bit from the old Ruskie quote: “Wokeism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”.
Not that you asked, but I define woke folks as: “Southern Baptists who have replaced Jesus with Political Correctness and Satan with Logic and Reason.”
The Intel folks gave woke folks the ring, and being highly irrational and emotion-driven people, they can’t handle the ring, and the billionaire war-makers are exploiting that fact.
Woke war!!!!! How far down the rabbit hole we gonna go people? As I write Ukrainians and Russians are dying en masse because of US. ‘Us’ being America and NATO and everyone who is silent about this atrocity.
But first, an alternative to the McGill study:
I’m honestly not sure who is right here. There are, of course, a million other reasons NOT to shoot that junk, and I think just about everyone who shot the junk got SARS anyway, right? What increased or decreased that chance may not be known??
Moving on to some great humor!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QathxavHSk
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MT532U7mNE&t=3s
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyNJdLSE9FQ
This is not really what the study found. Here is a review.
www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-medical/vaccine-study-has-people-worried-being-misinterpreted
If you know what mRNA technology is, this post is not for you.
mRNA technology is what you put into your body and the bodies of your children when you succumbed to the pressure (or at least believed the lies) from Mode RNA, Fizer, the CDC, Governor Brownshirt, Biden, Mick Jagger, etc.
You should at least know what it is you injected into your children as it will be affecting their now compromised immune systems for life.
Again, SARS is not polio, it’s a strong flu. And for that, if you shot the vax, you did this:
(again, love it or hate it, at least know what you put into your body)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrueJfBLRfY
Will we be similarly shocked when we wake up and find out that Russia has bombed an American city?
Look at Biden! (photo in link) So warlike! What a brave man! Standing up to that homophobe Vlad! I bet our fearless president keeps ‘violating Putin’s red lines’ until Europe or America is bombed, or cyber attacked. What a lovely, peace-loving administration! (or shall I call it Biden’s rainbow coalition of death?)
www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/biden-shows-growing-appetite-to-cross-putin-s-red-lines/ar-AA1bYNcj
Now look at reality: NATO and compliant senile war-who**e Biden have started World War Three.
Biden’s war will soon be spilling blood of Americans, in Ukraine and civilians stateside.
Then maybe we will wake the hell up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlYmLpJb5_I
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlYmLpJb5_I
Trash Compactor
Sink Basin
Stacked Ovens
Overhead Microwave
2 bathroom configurations
Shower enclosure
Text 503-801-9125
Email Handymandan503@gmail.com
My phone rings nonstop and I can’t get work done if I have to answer it all day. So text or email is best!
We think tsunami and wildfire here.
What about war? One nuke over America from Vlad and the grid goes down.
A year’s worth of EVERYTHING you need is elemental if you expect to survive such a scenario. Clean water access, food, medicine, warm clothes, wood stove, gun for self-defense (wild animals will be killed off quickly, don’t count on hunting, and as anyone who forages for wild edibles can tell you, their ain’t enough veggies in our woods to keep you alive.), and ammo (again, self-defense).
In my view, the most likely major emergency scenario that we will face next is failure of the power grid. This will be done by the transhumanists (the new name for the Sillicon Valley tech bros that think they will merge with computers and live forever), but it will be blamed on…drum roll please…Russia.
Henry Kissinger just turned 100. Klaus Schwab is Henry’s greatest protege. The reach of his World Economic Forum is significant. The worst of the worst of the ‘covid’ fascists are members of Klaus’s (Kissinger’s) Young Global Leaders program: Jucinda Williams of New Zealand, Justin Trudeau of Canada, Jay Inslee of Washington state, Gavin Newsom of California. In fact, Klaus brags that he has infiltrated about 70% of Canada’s cabinet. No wonder Canada has gone full commie!
Klaus also ‘predicted’ ‘zee covid crisis’ one year before it happened.
Now Klaus is warning us about a ‘major zyber attack’ that ‘will knock out zee power grid’.
And you best believe him, because it will be him and his global elite pals that will be crashing the grid (mostly to take down and then bring back the internet in a way they solidifies their control over us, like the elites always do, 24/7/365).
How this benefits them is a much wider discussion.
I am only writing this post so you get prepared. I have a heart an I don’t want to watch you starve.
Because while I am prepared, I am not sharing with you.
My kids, who are now approaching retirement, had sex education, and info regarding access to birth control and abortion when they were in the public school system in this state. This bill does not change that.
I feel that this bill is mostly about “gender care” since that is presently the most “in your face” topic in the news today. CHANGE YOUR GENDER!
In this instance your first grade daughter could be given testosterone treatments if a teacher suggested to her that she might want to be a boy, and you as a parent will know nothing about it. And if you do know – you couldn’t do anything anyway. You couldn’t stop it, because of this bill.
There is now a whole system of gender change
professionals making bucks in this field. Big Pharma included.
I am writing this because this happened to my out of state granddaughter when she was in school. Now that she is no longer in school she says she just wants to be herself – she is no longer interested in taking testosterone. But unfortunately this is not reversible. It is definitely a possibility that this could/will happen to your school age child. I am very very angry about this, thats why I am writing.
So this bill which is talked about as being about abortion is not really that. Abortion is written into the Oregon constitution and cannot be changed except by a vote put before the citizens of Oregon. Most abortions in this state are given to age 20 adults. I checked the data. None in Oregon for 15 year olds or younger.
This bill is about removing parental consent regarding their childs reproductive rights and other care needs, so that the child damagers can do what makes money for them.
The Republicans did not “walk out”, they are still in the legislature working on future legislation.
The Democrats are not going after them because of a bill that you all passed which says an absence of 10 days or more stops the legislator from running for office. And as you can see the Republicans are absent from voting, because they believe in parental rights. The Democrats do not want people who stand up for children to hold office. I am an independent and do not belong to any party. But I am totally disgusted by the greedy and immoral Democrats that run this state.
Did you know that 34 states have no laws regarding parental rights. This is because these states in their constitutions regard parental rights as FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS. That means that it would take a powerful reason, powerful arguments to change this right in a state’s supreme court. Paental rights ARE fundamental rights. This particular legislation does not exist because parents in Oregon wanted it. It exists because outside lobbyists incentivized our top leaders to pass it.
ARE YOU WILLING TO GIVE UP YOUR FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS AS A PARENT?
Ask the Democrats in your state legislature – Why would they vote for this bill. ASK THEM!
You can do the math yourself: 110 billion dollars for the war pigs, multiplied by 400+ congressional districts.
Instead the neocons running the senile-Biden administration want to murder Russian$ with our money.
And why not?
Everyone in America seems to think this is the right thing to do, that it makes sense, that the World War Three that we are currently in is worth it – to ‘help’ the most corrupt country in Europe.
NATO drone-bombed Moscow today. How long until Russia attacks us? The arrogance and stupidity of this admin and ALL of its follows is beyond the pale.
You might want to re-read the first line above: NATO DRONE-BOMBED MOSCOW TODAY.
And the vast majority of you on BBQ fully, FULLY, support this war. How do I know? I am one of two anti-war voices IN THIS ENTIRE COUNTY that I have seen.
One of Two.
And that is a damn shame.
Here is your war:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXvYOq2NrDE